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Lawmakers with the proposal to lift Virginia鈥檚 ban on skill machines, asking how convenience store cashiers could be the frontline enforcers of rules meant to prevent minors and gambling addicts from playing the machines. Some pressed for more stronger transparency and oversight provisions to track how much money is going into each machine and ensure everyone involved is being treated fairly and getting their correct share of the profits.

Senators also expressed reservations about whether the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Authority 鈥� which doesn鈥檛 have extensive experience overseeing gambling 鈥� could realistically set up a new system for overseeing the machines within the rapid timeframe desired by skill game supporters, who want them reactivated by July 1.

There were more questions than answers Monday as the legislation received its first hearing in the Senate Commerce and Labor Committee in a room packed with small business owners who support skill games.

The bending of legislative rules Monday to clear a more favorable path for the proposal 鈥� which is backed by a bipartisan coalition of top lawmakers in addition to the populist support from convenience store owners 鈥� highlights the intensity of the new push to get the machines turned back on after a聽聽turned them off late last year.

Several lawmakers said unresolved issues with the bill could be worked out later, but they had differing opinions on where it should go next.

Sen. Creigh Deeds, D-Charlottesville, who chairs the committee that heard the bill Monday, said the normal protocol would be for the bill to go to the Senate鈥檚 General Laws and Technology Committee, which the聽聽designate as the committee responsible for 鈥済aming and wagering.鈥� That committee is led by Sen. Adam Ebbin, D-Alexandria, a known skill game skeptic.

鈥淭he rules of the Senate say that gaming bills go to General Laws,鈥� Deeds said. 鈥淭he chair of General Laws, Sen. Ebbin, requested the bill. And I鈥檓 going to follow the protocol of the Senate.鈥�

But other senators overruled that decision, voting 10-5 to send the bill to the Senate Finance and Appropriations Committee. That committee is run by Sen. Louise Lucas, D-Portsmouth, a co-sponsor of the skill game bill. During Monday鈥檚 meeting, Lucas made it clear she didn鈥檛 want the General Laws committee tinkering with the proposal too much.

鈥淚 hope you all don鈥檛 fool around with this bill,鈥� Lucas said. 鈥淏ecause I鈥檇 hate to have to unravel this thing when it gets to Finance.鈥�

In an interview after the vote, Ebbin said he was disappointed his committee won鈥檛 get a chance to hear the bill and said it appeared some regulatory details of the proposal were 鈥渧ery hastily rushed through.鈥�

鈥淚 don鈥檛 know what the proponents are afraid of. They seem to have friends throughout the General Assembly,鈥� Ebbin said. 鈥淚t would have been nice to have all the gaming bills considered together and compared.鈥�

During Monday鈥檚 meeting, Sen. Bill Stanley, R-Franklin, who acknowledged he鈥檚 鈥渂iased鈥� on skill machines after helping the industry file a lawsuit challenging Virginia鈥檚 ban, suggested too many committee hearings could bog down a 鈥渧ery good bill.鈥�

鈥淲here does it stop?鈥� Stanley said, asking if the bill should also go to the Senate Courts of Justice Committee because it also touches on crime.

Senate Majority Leader Scott Surovell, D-Fairfax, who chairs the Courts committee, said he hadn鈥檛 asked for the bill because it takes an activity that鈥檚 currently illegal and makes it legal.

鈥淚 don鈥檛 think it鈥檚 unusual for a bill to make a couple of different pit stops,鈥� said Surovell.

Surovell, Ebbin and Deeds all voted against the motion to bypass the Senate鈥檚 usual process for gambling bills, as did Sens. Dave Marsden, D-Fairfax, and Jeremy McPike, D-Prince William. The group of 10 senators who voted to advance the bill to the Finance committee was made up of six Republicans, including Stanley, and four Democrats who more strongly support skill games.

鈥淰irginia has opened the door to gaming,鈥� Rouse said. 鈥淚t鈥檚 time that we allow skill games to be able to compete.鈥�

Rouse and other sponsors of the bill introduced an amended version Monday that removed a broad聽聽in the first draft that would have shielded much of the industry鈥檚 financial data from public scrutiny. Rouse said the bill鈥檚 backers are 鈥渇ully supportive of a transparent reporting process.鈥�

However, several other points of concerns were raised Monday that could be rehashed at future legislative meetings. They include:

Restrictions on minors

As drafted, the bill states that anyone under 18 cannot play the machines. Rouse said Monday that he and his allies are open to raising that age to 21 to better reflect similar rules for casinos and sports betting and win broader support for the measure.

Several lawmakers raised questions Monday about how convenience store clerks and ABC officials would enforce the age rules and supervise who鈥檚 sitting down at the machines.

鈥淚t鈥檚 a unique environment that doesn鈥檛 control entry into the building based on age,鈥� said Marsden.

Skill game proponents have said it will fall to store clerks to enforce the age restrictions, just as they do for sales of alcohol and tobacco.

鈥淭hat鈥檚 up to the establishment to make sure that doesn鈥檛 happen,鈥� Rouse said.

Proponents of the bill have also argued that because identification is required to cash out skill game winnings, minors are unlikely to be attracted to machines that can take their money but can鈥檛 pay them.

Some critics of the industry-backed skill game bill have suggested businesses should be required to put them in a separate room with age-restricted entry.

Self-exclusion for problem gamblers

A key part of Virginia鈥檚 gambling regulations is a self-exclusion list allowing people with gambling addictions to voluntarily ban themselves from spending more money in pursuit of a jackpot.

Under questioning by senators, lobbyist Brian Moran, a former Virginia public safety secretary, acknowledged the proposal doesn鈥檛 include a way to replicate that with skill games.

鈥淭hat would be a challenge,鈥� Moran said. 鈥淚 don鈥檛 know how we鈥檇 enforce that.鈥�

Rouse noted that 2% of the tax revenues generated by the machines would be dedicated to the state鈥檚 Problem Gambling Treatment and Support Fund.

Questions about ABC鈥檚 oversight capacity

The amended bill introduced Monday directs ABC to fast-track the regulatory process to allow the machines to be reactivated by July 1, the typical date for new laws to take effect in Virginia.

The proposal envisions having skill game businesses report their own revenues, but some senators said they feel the state should have real-time data on how much money is going into each machine instead of trusting the industry to self-report its profits.

鈥淗ow do we know that they鈥檙e telling us the truth?鈥� asked Sen. Mark Peake, R-Lynchburg, who insisted he wanted to see machine data flow directly to the state 鈥渆lectronically.鈥�

Skill game backers assured the committee the machines are equipped with technology to make that possible if policymakers choose the real-time data route.

John Daniel, ABC鈥檚 government affairs officer and general counsel, told senators the agency doesn鈥檛 have a position on the bill but stands ready to take on skill game regulation if the General Assembly chooses to add that to its regulatory duties for stores and restaurants that serve alcohol.

鈥淚 think we would be successful,鈥� Daniel said.

McPike seemed skeptical of ABC鈥檚 claims it could quickly set up whatever regulatory structure lawmakers approve using only the 6% of skill game tax revenue allotted to the agency under the bill. It took the Virginia Lottery 18 months, he said, to set up the infrastructure for real-time oversight of wagering happening in the state鈥檚 casinos.

McPike said that and other issues could be addressed by sending the bill to General Laws, the committee that鈥檚 spent the most time delving into the finer points of gambling regulation. The issues senators raised Monday, he said, 鈥渁re not resolved in this bill.鈥�